Self Build & Renovation: Live! by NSBRC

Good morning.

Welcome to Self-Build and Renovation Live.

Apologies we're a little bit late.

It does prove that we are

definitely live because

we've got an event going on

that either costed our

guests for this panel fight,

I'm going to call it today.

I feel like I should be in a

ref's outfit to be honest with you,

but it'll be great fun.

We're going to enjoy this one.

We've got them and we're ready to go.

My name is Chris Dawes from Visual PR,

but let's find out who the

most important people are.

So one at a time, introduce who you are,

where you're from, and of course,

what you're representing

from the building systems fight.

Yeah, I'm Rob Clark from Honka UK,

and we import wooden homes

from Finland that are cross-laminated,

very healthy to build.

But that's your speciality.

That's our speciality.

I like it.

That's why we started

talking about ice hockey earlier as well.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've got it.

And next,

Steve Callow from the Mineral

Products Association, MPA Masonry.

We represent masonry

suppliers to the Southfield market.

And obviously we speak on

behalf of what people think

of as traditional brick and

block masonry build systems.

fantastic thank you sir good

morning yeah I'm max ellis

I'm from fleming homes

we're a timber frame

manufacturer so I'm

representing timber frame

fabulous which I think

we've kind of got some

behind us to some extent

there and you bought

examples next yeah yeah I'm

richard leonard I'm from

beaker war form beaker war

form is an insulated

concrete formwork system so

large polystyrene blocks

which you fill with concrete

which you actually stole the

intended filming space.

We did, yes, I'm very sorry about that.

By building something just yesterday,

a whole thing,

which kind of proves its point, I think,

to some extent, doesn't it?

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Next.

Hi all,

I'm Phil Bagnell from Evolution

Home and Leisure.

We are a steel frame panel manufacturer.

So we're a complete manufacturer,

and so I'm representing

steel framed panels, insulator panels.

So as you can see,

we've got the full spectrum covered here,

which is why it is roll our sleeves up.

I apologise in advance, by the way,

if there's at times when we

might be a little bit

difficult to hear or you

hear a hum in the background,

as you all know,

it is a little bit bitter

out there today.

And so we've got the heating

going absolutely mental today.

So, yes, bear with us on that one.

Thanks for a couple of

comments coming in as well.

Eleanor Van Ploew, good morning to you.

And Sarah Troughton, just quickly.

You can put your comments in

and we're able to put them up on screen.

Sarah Troughton, is there a problem?

Now you know the answer to that one.

There was just a slight delay.

So thanks for bearing with us.

Much appreciated.

um right so I'm going to

come the opposite direction

this time and make sure we

can hear you with this one

because this is the

critical one now is what

are the main advantages of

using your building system

all right now is your

chance to put your warfare

down uh and in what

scenario uh does your

building system particularly shine

Okay, like I said,

we are a steel-framed manufacturer,

and so we design, manufacture,

we do everything in-house.

There isn't anything we put

out to any other company.

So as a self-builder,

you can come and sit down with us,

go through a particular design,

and we can panellise that for you,

help you cost it.

You can then take that

design to an architect or

come to us with an architect's design,

and we can go through everything.

can show you our complete

process within the factory

so order process

manufacturing process

installation process once

we've gone through all that

you can even actually come

and get involved with us

and work with us creating

and producing your own

panels and also on site as

part of the installation

team as well so with us you

can do as much or as little

as possible you can either do

virtually everything and we

only put a two-man team on

site helping you actually

do the installation and

also in the factory like I

say you can come and get

involved with the actual

manufacturing and putting

together of the panel so

you get complete

understanding of everything

So that's one of our,

we'd like to think as a USP,

something that we're able to do.

And like I said, as the manufacturer,

that gives you the

opportunity to get involved

and look at everything.

Because presumably it is, yeah,

with the steel framework,

it is built bespoke to what you're

design needs to be we

because we're a panelized

system we we have various

standard panels so once we

once we've sort of put them

panels together and and

then to create to go into small gaps or

to adjust our panel size to

whatever your architect has

designed for you or you're looking at,

then we're completely bespoke.

We can build any size panel,

width or length up to ten foot tall.

If we need to go more than ten foot tall,

then we just put a strap in

and go another foot high.

And what's a key benefit or

what would make someone

feel that steel framework

was the right way to go for their build?

We're actually the only

company that's overcome

cold bridging within a steel frame.

So we don't have a cavity.

We've actually painted or

painted pending on the fact

that we've overcome cold bridging.

So we can create a single

panel system with new

values on our single panel

of about point one three

before we add anything else

to it internally or externally.

and we get excellent air

tightness of point two six

or two point six.

So two point six on air tightness,

just a standard.

So just as a standard

offering into the market,

that's what we're coming at

before we start getting

other experts involved in

getting to pacify standard

and things like that.

Okay.

Do you find that people

already have decided that's

the route they're going,

or would they still be

potentially unsure?

No, I think people want to go to passive,

but I can't get a

definitive answer as to

what the extra cost is

going to certified passive

against getting to passive

but not being certified.

I think people want to build

to that standard,

but I think they're not

sure where the additional

cost is or how big that cost is yet.

Well,

I know that episode seven in about

two weeks time, twenty first,

I think it is episode seven.

We're doing this.

Got the thumbs up.

I was right.

I remember occasionally

we're doing a bit on

Passive House as well

because it's quite an

intriguing area in itself, isn't it?

Hence,

we've already done one episode on

Passive House that's worth

looking back on the YouTube

channel for the NSBRC's YouTube channel.

Thank you very much for that, Phil.

Richard, I mean,

I feel like I should almost

say that yours is possibly

the one that people don't

necessarily realise about

more than any of the others, because

when you look at it and you've got it here,

polystyrene.

But that's not the whole story, is it?

No.

So with insulated concrete

formwork like Warthorne,

I would say the primary

advantage to it is its energy efficiency.

And that's in that it

delivers in three different ways here.

So we've got a lot of

insulation to give us a very low U value.

So this particular wall

block I've got here gives

the U value of point one four,

which is suitable for passive house.

and we have to have one

that's slightly wider still

but will give us a new

value of point one one so

we've got the insulation

aspect to uh low energy or

zero energy construction

the um post siren because

it has to completely

contain the concrete during

the construction process

because we're filling this

core with our concrete to

give us our structural

element it means the

continuous form work being

insulation eliminates

co-bridging because if the

concrete if the

insulation wasn't continuous

the concrete would escape

so it was a definite proof

of point there but we've

got our continuous layer of

insulation in the build and

because as the concrete

goes in it naturally seals

up to the previous pour and

we have relatively few

concrete pours over the

duration of the build maybe

three or four if we're

using a concrete pump it

means we naturally achieve

a very airtight structure

as well so it's doing the

three key principles of

passive house design just

within this one relatively simple

I always make an apology and

I do to all of you here.

I'm from outside of this industry.

I'm just doing the host role

here and I love doing this

because I'm learning every episode.

It's absolutely brilliant.

Am I right, and I apologize if I'm not,

that that is an area that

maybe people don't

automatically think of and

you've had to educate people?

on this or on my role?

To a certain degree, yeah.

We do produce different

levels of insulation within our system.

So we can start at building

regulations level and

progressively go down to

full passive house performance.

And so it really just

depends what position

people are in their project,

what direction they're

coming from as to which of

our systems they might choose.

And very often,

they may come across

insulated concrete formwork

for a different reason for

example if you wanted to

build a basement which you

can also use it for and

then that then leads on to

as they discover the system

what it's capable of then

perhaps um that's how they

then realize that there is

actually that potential to

to go full passive or close to passive

yes absolutely and I'm going

to ask a really stupid

question I know the answer

but I want to hear it from

you obviously I mean we've

got an example down behind

us that you guys bought a

built literally yesterday

yeah but it's not that

we're suddenly going that's

what your house now looks

like there it is covered

around the outside yes with

what absolutely on the

outside you've got a full

range of choices um I would

say the most popular cool

is probably render still

okay on the render systems

which can software straight

to the outside panel

uh but equally we see brick

slips brick skins stone

skins um even sympathetic

that's that seems to be

growing popularity just at

the moment along the inside

it can be wet plaster or

plasterboard straight to

apply styling okay that

makes sense but give me for

a second max because I'm

just going to briefly jump

out jump over you um

because steve I'm almost

thinking obviously from the

mpa masonry side there's a

crossover here for sure

they're some of our members

as well and you know i

We have members that produce that product.

We have members that produce

it in woodcrete as well

within it as the same form.

Woodcrete.

similar shape exactly what

you're looking at there but

a calcified form of timber

that has incredible kind of

long durability as well

similar there's many

examples in the the um in

the center that can show

you them but very similar

to that and again the core

of it is like a concrete

structural framework it's

durable it's going to last

for a long time we're a big

supporter of it

and and if you don't mind

I'll come back to you max

is that it makes sense for

you to now also answer the

question fully about you

know um what are the main

advantages from your

perspective of your

speciality obviously the

masonry side um and and

where would someone be

using that so we do have a

representation for the icf

the the concrete frame um

manufacturers but we

primarily represent the brick and block

manufacturers within the uk

so mostly on the block side

of things um something that

everybody's seen you know

this has been the de facto

sort of build method in the

uk for north of sort of

seventy five years or so um

you know cavity that

everybody recognizes we

have brick outside um

insulation cavity and then

we have a block in a wall um

You know, the reason we promote it,

the reason we're really

very passionate about it is

it's not just this being

the default build method.

It's got a lot of material

properties that we really believe in.

You know, it's durable.

It lasts a long time.

You know, I've been a self builder.

I've done self builds in the

past and I picked that material choice.

because I like the

properties of what that

brings we call them

heavyweight builds you know

they've got some thermal

property advantages you

know a lot of people have

questions one of the

biggest ones we get asked

about is um energy

efficiency and and you know

how other material sort of

choices can be perceived to

be a lot more energy

efficient the first build

that meets the future home

standards coming in that

was done in the uk we need

to exceed it project at was

done and they picked

brick and block for a reason

to prove that that build

method could hit that target.

So, you know,

there's answers to all the

same with the other build method.

It's always a question of like,

ask the question and listen

to the people that

represent that sector

giving you the answer that

You need to know and

understand whether that

fits with what you need.

We have the answer.

You know, we like the material properties,

the thermal mass,

all that stuff that we get

with heavyweight build.

That's why we like that material.

But there's also other bits

in the background where

people will be asking you

questions and we have answers to those.

That's our kind of role in

this is to give you that

best practice kind of

guidance and answer the

questions that we know

we're going to be coming about.

which I would imagine is an

awful lot and I do for sure

hasten to add here is that

don't expect today's

episode to give you all of

those answers from every

single one of these things

it just isn't possible

there's too much to talk

about too many nuances I

would imagine for the

situations but if anything

it's to start making you

aware that there are conversations

to be had and I think that's

the key one and we've got

and I'm going to put it up

again uh on here is that

the link that shows we've

got the say that my mouse

isn't working um click not

working but uh it's going

to put the web link up for

the for the show um oh

that's because I've frozen

that's why it's not showing

my screen frozen but there we go um

january thirty first

february first and second

we've got a three-day show

here and you can get here

and you can speak to all of

these experts you can go

and look at all of the

stands and and uh and and

find out more and that's

the critical thing isn't it

max back to you now I do

start feeling that we are

getting that ramping that

tension up now between the

different methods

And I'm okay with that, if I'm honest.

I'm okay with it.

But obviously,

we're now going in a

different direction again.

So we've gone steel,

we've gone the polystyrene with concrete,

we've gone the concrete and brickwork.

We're now going wooden.

Yeah, so timber frame.

And, you know,

I'll ease that tension down a little bit,

perhaps by saying...

There are so many options

out there nowadays for the

sort of builder and the self builder.

And when I give these sort of talks,

I always say, you know,

we can all pretty much get

from A to Z and all the

different systems in this all today,

you know,

we can all get to where the

customer usually wants to be,

but it's their job.

to find out what system's

best for them yeah um but

anyway I'm here to promote

timber frame so uh I like

your your passive way yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah but

yeah timber frame benefits

I suppose the two most

commonly known benefits

with timber frame are the

speed of construction that

you get with it

You know,

we can usually get a customer's

house to wind and water tight stage,

which means the structure erected,

windows and doors installed,

roof bordered and membrane.

So, you know,

you've got that wind and

weather tight shell.

You know, on an average size house,

we're usually on site about

two to three weeks to get

them to that stage.

There's a big benefit for

them to say that that initial big change

part of the construction

process is fairly quick yes

um the other sort of most

commonly known benefit I

suppose is the thermal

efficiency that you get so

with timber frame usually

the the primary insulation

core is housed within the

the timber frame panel yes

so and that's usually

factory fitted so um with

this one you can see behind

me uh we use an open panel timber frame

You've got the main body of

insulation that's housed

within the timber frame panels.

And as you can see there,

we've included another additional layer,

which takes that wall from

probably just about meeting

building regs or a bit

slightly better down to a

low energy level.

so with that type of system

the customer can choose how

well their wall is going to

perform so that particular

example is showing a

hundred and forty mil

timber frame stud with

insulation housed within it

an additional fifty mil

gets you down to about

point one one new value

which is a sort of you know

very good sort of performing wall so

they're the two main

benefits speed of

construction on site

thermal efficiency but

there are lots of others

you know um flexibility um

ease for the client so on

and so forth sustainability

um but also what a lot of

companies are finding out

specifically in this market

that south builders need a

bit of help elsewhere so

it's not just about the

product perhaps it's also

what that company is going

to offer in terms of the

bolt-on services that they

offer for example remember

to do your planning

application for you we're

building race drawings or

put your foundations in so

um yeah um it's um lots of

different uh bolt-on

products that might sway it

for the customer not just

the actual build method okay

you able to get as far as

passive house as well yeah

yeah we can do yeah our

system isn't certified um

primarily we don't do that

the slab as part of our

remit and you'd normally

but yeah um if a customer

comes to us and wants

passive we can go and work

yeah as somebody alluded to

a lot of customers when

they start on the journey

got that goal of getting to

passive house levels,

which is a great goal.

It's the Rolls Royce of build performance.

A lot of our customers will

end up just getting a

really good thermal envelope,

fabric first thoughts,

getting a really airtight

and thermally efficient structure,

but they may not quite go

to the fortification stage.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And it's aspirational, I guess, isn't it?

I've got to say I keep

chuckling inside I feel

like the big bad wolf and

you know the different

types of housing that we're

talking about here it's

just quite amusing um last

but by absolutely no means

least we've got robert clark from honka

kind of across over here I'm

assuming because yours is

is timber but very much

scandinavian folks

scandinavian yeah well

nordic nordic yeah that's

the one yeah yeah it is I

mean we're using massive

wood uh basically so

instead of the timber frame

uh system that max has got

there you know our walls

are solid wood wow yeah um that come in

what you would traditionally

have called logs,

but it's cross laminated

timber that we're using.

And the main reason that

people choose our product, A,

we're a company that's been

trading since nineteen fifty eight,

built more than ninety

thousand houses around the world.

So there's a lot of experience there.

We know what we're doing and

it's probably one of the

most sustainable building

systems there is.

I mean,

the more wood that you use in a building,

the more sustainable it will be,

provided the wood's coming

from sustainable sources.

We're binding lots of carbon

into the houses,

so a traditional sort of

three-bedroom house will

bind about ninety tonnes of carbon,

so that's quite significant.

That's the equivalent to

driving a family car about

fourteen times around the world,

so it's quite a lot of carbon.

And that's bound into the

building for life.

And the other benefit of

this system is it's

incredibly healthy to live in.

So we don't get any mold spores.

There's no dust in the air.

There's no bacteria.

The walls are actually

naturally antibacterial.

And we can also prove that

it reduces your heart rate.

So you'll have about ten

percent less heartbeats per day.

It's about eight and a half

thousand less heartbeats

per day if you live in one

of these houses.

So you feel more relaxed.

You sleep better.

It can reduce your blood pressure.

So a lot of health benefits

that have been in this type

of house as well.

Okay.

I do love that.

That's solid, isn't it?

Well, it is a very tactile product,

you know, and the thing with wood,

and again,

one of the benefits of this

system is the wood is

naturally controlling the

environment inside the house.

Right.

So particularly this time of

the year and in the spring

when the sun's coming in

through the doors and windows,

that sun energy still has,

or the heat still has energy.

That gets absorbed into the wood.

So if you feel that,

it's actually quite warm

because it's trying to

equalize the air temperature.

Yeah.

So what happens is overnight,

particularly at the moment

when it's so cold,

the air temperature drops

and the heat that's in the

wood gets released back into the house.

So it helps to reduce your energy costs.

And like the other guys were saying,

you know,

we get asked about passive house a lot.

When you actually drill down

and you question a client

about why they want passive house,

you realise that a lot of them,

I would say at least ninety percent,

don't actually want passive house.

They just want a house

that's energy efficient.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, when we say to them, well,

we can build you a house

that's going to cost you

less than ten pounds a month in energy.

They say, well,

that's that's exactly what

we're looking for.

You know,

passive house is less important

than that.

I guess we've got the

ability to get to Passive

House potentially with all

of these different ways.

I would imagine all the systems, yeah.

And like I say, it's aspirational,

which I think even if

someone can't get there,

if you didn't have that

aspirational level,

we probably wouldn't have

people getting up this high, would we?

No.

It's like they say, aim for the sky,

that's as far as you'll get.

Aim for the stars and you

could get through the... Absolutely.

etc etc that kind of stuff

yeah okay um right now that

I've stoked this one up

from you all then uh I like

that one how does um

affordability compare

across these different

building systems um and I

don't know whether we're

able to go into things like

cost per square meter

potential impact of rising

material costs and I'm

gonna go this direction this time

Well, are you ready to go?

Yeah, I'm happy to go.

Go for it then, Phil.

Give us an idea.

So how does the affordability side?

Okay.

where where we like to to

gain is like on timber

frame we're very fast so

we're fast on site we'd be

similar perhaps a week two

weeks to build a hundred

hundred and twenty square

meter house um

superstructure roof on

windows and doors fitted um

so we can save you can save

money in that area and you

can be into it a lot faster

especially if you're going

to perhaps hire a mobile

home which a lot of people

do don't they while they're going to be

building their own house.

Material costings, we've been pretty flat.

We've got three major materials,

which is our insulation,

our steel and our cladding.

And one seems to be up and

the others will come down.

And so

I haven't priced anything

yet and done a job where

we've got to go in and say, look,

we've got a price increase

actually even up to a year.

Really?

Yeah.

Even up to a year.

I haven't had to do that.

And also where the biggest

thing that probably most of us was HS too,

because so many materials,

the price just went up ridiculous.

So, but that happened for everyone.

So I don't mind that it affects everybody.

That's that's okay.

Square meter price.

Varying on the size and the complexity,

fully installed and delivered,

the structure, so the superstructure,

we can be anything from

four hundred and fifty

pound a square meter to five to five,

depending on the complexity

of the building and how big.

um but yeah that would be

and then basically people

are then looking at all the

bolt-ons and the add-ons

but that's for completely

sealed building once you

put the windows and doors

in completely sealed

airtight mortar type

structure with um first

floor and the loft and the

roof everything water proof

base wow so that's what

we're and and like timber

frame we're there in less

than two weeks okay on site

and um there's no power tools

so we're everything is done

with a an allen key so our

walls are fitted together

and held together yeah with

an allen key so there's

you're not even charging

batteries and things like

that so yeah it's yeah so

best out I mean that gives

us good idea I've been

given a ten minute warning

so I'm going to make sure

that we get through

everybody so everybody gets

to say no no no my fault uh

richard the same question

to you sort of like what

are we looking at cost wise

so cost wise with icf

Our feedback we get is that

it's comparable to standard construction,

masonry construction.

The cost profile is probably

the biggest difference.

The actual materials are the

more expensive part of the build,

but the savings come in the

time and the labour.

So because it's so much

quicker and we're not

reliant on bricklayer levels of skill,

it's a semi-skilled construction.

construction system in that respect.

That's where the big cost savings come.

And depending on where you are,

building in the country,

that can actually come quite significant.

And so those two things

together tend to bring us

back out to approximately

about the same sort of cost

as the mainstream construction.

Now,

some of the variation can come in with

the external finish,

because not all external

finishes cost the same.

So render and sympathising

might be the lower cost end.

that comparison.

A full brick skin or stone

skin on the outside of the

gonadosis system might take

it slightly higher.

So again,

it all just depends on what's

involved in the... It's not

easy for you guys at all, is it?

I mean, it really is a lot more to it.

I'm going to very quickly

jump because we've also got...

uh sarah torton apologies if

I pronounce that wrong

sarah uh richard does the

polystyrene of icf get

nibbled by mice uh we're

keen to build with icf but

our current house next to

the site has mice in winter

would woodcrete be a sell

for option for us

Well,

the polystyrene itself has no

nutritious content,

so there's nothing there

that will actually nourish the mice.

So there's no reason for

them to go for it.

But the kind of like the

bullet proof is about is

the external cladding,

because once this is clad on the outside,

effectively it's sealed.

So there should be no access

whatsoever to that.

Just checking what we got another one.

I'm going to put this out there.

Hannah says,

what is the only sustainable

building material, discuss,

unless you use mostly wood

in the superstructure like Honka,

how can the other systems

be ecological and have

sustainable benefits?

Right, there you go.

There's a grenade.

I'm happy to answer that one.

Mineral products are a local material.

People don't realize that

they don't travel, you know,

all block manufacturing.

What was going to say in

answer to the question about cost?

You know,

we don't talk about what specific

costs are because we

represent all the different

manufacturers and be

different in regional areas.

but um you know mineral

products are on this

massive journey to

decarbonize since the

nineties we take up fifty

percent of the embodied

carbon out of it yeah it's

changed completely in that

thirty five year period and

since even the beginning of

the um you know beginning

of the uh twenty tens since

I mean I think we market

them at two thousand eleven

fifty percent of our

operational energy is gone

manufacturing is coming out

of it so it's decarbonizing

rapidly one of the most

important things is it's a local material

It comes from down the road.

When we did our study for

where these materials come from,

they come from less than

forty miles from you.

It'll be a local supplier

that you know that you see

traveling up and down the road to you.

That helps us an enormous

amount with sort of

sustainability benefits.

I understand it's a common conception,

but we sat there with one

of the heads of the biggest

house builders,

volume house builders at

the Future Homes Conference

a couple of weeks ago and

said something not dissimilar.

But a lot of this is

measured over a short period of time.

It's measured over a six year period.

And we are getting a very

different picture with

modern methods of measuring.

some of the some of what we

call the life cycle tools

coming out very very

positive about the whole

life aspect of what happens

with these buildings but we

then expect these buildings

to last even longer you

know it's the same as the

car kind of thing you know

you buy a car and it gives

you the three-year figures

for the car but you don't

buy a car expecting it you

don't buy a house expecting

it to last sixty years you

don't expect to knock it

down and then start again

at that point so all the

things we talk about

sustainability and I

understand that's a common conception

It's not necessarily a correct conception.

There's a lot of aspects

behind that which change.

And we have a full plan to decarbonize.

It's literally part of what

we do on a day-to-day basis.

We talk decarbonisation day

after day and we have

published route maps.

The Low Carbon Concrete

Working Group have got

published route maps.

We, the MPA,

have one specific about

concrete products.

So we know where we're going.

We polled members.

Some of them have declared

decarbonisation by twenty thirty.

Almost every single one has

declared full

decarbonisation by twenty fifty.

We are on that.

journey to remove it and

it's fascinating super

interesting not a

conversation for now but

that's the way I know I'm

very conscious there's a

massive answer behind that

and it includes everybody that uses

wet cast foundations and

block work and everything

that gets involved in this.

It all builds into what that

upfront carbon picture is.

And there's always an

element of concrete in there.

And we're on this amazing

journey to take that carbon out of that.

And I think, Phil,

you've got a right to reply

on that as well, I would imagine,

if you want to.

But before I say that,

make sure you look in the

description of the episode

because all of their

websites are available for

you to click on and find out more.

And I want to make sure you

go and do that and check

out the organisations these

guys are representing.

But yeah, Phil,

do you have... I'm not

actually an expert in this field.

Fine.

But...

at the end of the day, the steel side,

as most, it's in the news all the time,

the amount of effort to go into,

for instance,

in Port Talbot to change the

amount of energy required

to produce steel.

I mean,

I was down there yesterday looking

at what they're trying

We built a building nine

years ago for specific in Swansea,

Swansea Bay with Tata Steel.

We built that.

And over the next three years,

they're looking at taking

it down and putting it up somewhere else.

There's a different building.

Yeah, yeah.

So therefore,

we might not be as

sustainable as some two.

I can take the same panel,

move it to somewhere else, or share it.

It just has to stay within

that design of that eight

foot by four foot panel.

It's going to go there.

And that's what we made.

And I'm not sure whether Richard,

do you need to have a reply

to that comment or is it being covered?

A lot of that's been covered

on the commercial concrete side.

In terms of polystyrene,

it's a natural byproduct of

the oil refining process.

And when used as insulation,

once the building is operational,

it will offset its own

carbon footprint three

times over at least every

year for the rest of the

lifetime of that building.

As we were saying,

these long lifetime structures.

um that's a lot of offset so

it's an understandable

comment but there's a lot

more to it than to be able

to just make a blank yeah

for sure on the on the

timber frame which

obviously isn't it isn't a

solid timber structure as

as robs what you can see

behind me is the insulation

is not a natural material

it's a material it's a

product called pir which is

um oil-based product

but our customers sometimes

want to use a natural

insulation such as hemp or wood fibre,

sheep's wool, that sort of thing.

The reason why that one

there behind me is so

popular is the bang for

your buck that you get with it.

It's very good performance

for the thickness that you get.

so usually if you've got to

go for a natural product

sometimes you've got to go

a bit deeper which means

the timber frame panel's

got to get deeper and it

can be an additional cost

but um with timber frame

you can go fully natural in

terms of insulation as well

okay well I guess you don't

even need to have a reply

to that because you're like

going he's shouting for you

yeah exactly I mean you

know we're using all

natural products so even

the insulation we actually

use a wood fiber insulation

as standard yeah so

everything that we're using

is natural and obviously

The tree grows,

it's finding carbon as

we're cutting trees down.

The forested area in Finland

is growing year on year.

So more trees are being planted,

more carbon is being banned.

So we don't even have to

think about carbon

offsetting because we're

taking more carbon out of

the environment than we're putting in it,

even with the processing.

So we know from studies and

evidence that's been

carried out that it takes

about fifty percent less

energy to process wood than

it does to make cement-based products,

eighty percent less energy

than it does to make bricks.

So processing wood in itself

is a very sustainable and

environmentally friendly system.

Now I'm getting tense.

I can feel the tension.

So I'm going to quickly

because I'm conscious.

I need you guys to answer

this quickly because of the timing.

I only got as far.

We didn't get to you with

the cost side of things.

Yes.

Again, with the market we're in,

the designs can be massively different.

It will depend on the design.

And we've got a cost

calculator on our website

that gives out generic

figures for sort of build costs,

just the timber frame part

and the total build costs.

As a rough idea,

just for the structure of

the timber frame,

we work on about a three

hundred pound per square metre

chart cost for that but that

doesn't include the

erecting costs or some of

our customers put it

themselves but you know I

think you can with

everything you look at

about a third a quarter to

a third of the total build

costs being the timber

frame costs is a good

benchmark to work on

Fair enough.

Steve, I think we covered it.

Speak to your local suppliers,

speak to your regional people that,

whether that's through a

builder's merchant or

direct with other

manufacturers you have down the road,

but speak to them.

I mean, it changes around the country,

you know, it's a local product,

so it changes around the

country for where you are.

It also depends what type of

product you're using.

There's everything from

air-creep products to dense

concrete blocks within what we cover.

So they've got variabilities

there depending on energy

performance as well, what

kind of build you're looking

at in terms of masonry is

massively variable.

Advice as always,

which is a really good one,

go speak to your local manufacturer,

pick what type of build method you want,

what product within that group you want.

Speak to your engineer about what fits,

what you're comfortable with,

and then go find what

that's going to cost you locally.

That makes sense.

Robert?

Well, I mean,

we offer a full turnkey service.

So when we're dealing with a customer,

we'll build the house and

we'll start to finish right

down to floor coverings.

We can even do furniture packages.

So what we tend to do is we

work on the client's perceived budget,

their wish list of what they want.

And then when we design the

house and work with them on that,

we've always got their budget in mind.

And so it really is driven

by the client more than the

product in a way, because, you know,

we say it's an average for

a turnkey house,

it's about two and a half

thousand pounds a square meter,

but we don't know at the

outset whether they want a

five thousand pounds

kitchen or a fifty thousand

pounds kitchen,

and obviously that

influences that square meter price.

So for us,

it's more about working with the

client and trying to meet their budget.

What we always say to everybody,

and it'll be the same with

all the systems,

is if the client has a

sensible budget that you

can build a three-bedroom

house or a four-bedroom house,

whatever it is they're looking for,

all of these systems would suit.

We can change things within

our system and within the

specification to meet the

budget that they're looking for,

but it just needs to be realistic.

No, I understand that.

There's a whole load of

other areas that I would

love to be able to cover,

but I'm being shouted at because I can't.

But what I want to just make

sure is that the website

addresses for all of these

gents are in the episode description,

as I said.

So make sure that you grab

that and you can have a

look and find out more.

Get in touch with you guys

as well to find out.

How many of you were here at

the show at the end of the month?

Make sure you get yourself signed up.

Again, it's on the screen.

The sign up is completely

free to go as long as you

book in advance.

Loads of parking here, as we always say.

We are actually going to be

previewing that show a

little bit more when we do

the episode seven, which is on Tuesday,

the twenty first of January.

I think we're going live at

about one o'clock for that one.

um and we will preview that

in more detail the show and

uh and as you hear these

guys are going to be here

as are many others for you

to find out this is what I

love about doing these

episodes there are so many

things to find out so many

experts to feel uh speak to

and this is the beauty of

this place they're all

under one roof that we

can come and speak to you

heck I even bring them

together and create a fight

you know that's absolutely

fine so you've got the

website there you're able

to uh to get yourself

booked on all sorts of uh

talks that will be on as

well we'll be previewing

that as I say in episode

seven but from gents thank

you so much for joining me

I'm sure you're the same as

me thinking I still want to

talk about more

I suggest everybody comes

and has those conversations

but thank you for to you

all thank you to everybody

watching thank you for the

uh the comments sarah

appreciate that thank you

so much very informative

I'm glad you think that way

uh sarah come and find out

more and we'll see you on

the the next episode in uh

in a couple of weeks time

so I'm just going through

to what I need to do see

you next time cheers all